tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1071963771262525979.post1880137770713692584..comments2024-01-22T18:18:17.236-06:00Comments on Blue Blurry Lines: The 1980 Cash-Landrum UFO: Paracast Q & ACurt Collinshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13773941506205598439noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1071963771262525979.post-2005394390514084982014-09-01T13:15:25.705-05:002014-09-01T13:15:25.705-05:00Great comments, Chris. I have not seen much examin...Great comments, Chris. I have not seen much examination of the helicopter spotlight idea, but it's possible that nothing was published on it. In my files I've gathered some material on it, and had even asked aviation historian Curtis Peebles about the idea, but he felt it was unlikely. Still, if I had the resources, I'd love to stage an attempt to duplicate the sighting with helcopters, searchlights and sling loads just for comparison's sake.Curt Collinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13773941506205598439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1071963771262525979.post-42776979138933711612014-08-29T17:31:17.408-05:002014-08-29T17:31:17.408-05:00Curt, great blog. Sadly, it's making me more o...Curt, great blog. Sadly, it's making me more of a skeptic about this case. I used to consider this the most difficult to explain UFO sighting of all time. Though I always tended to believe in a man made explanation. After reading your blog, I have the following concerns about the case:<br /><br />1. The MUFON investigator made questionable assumptions.<br />2. The women did not see a diamond--only Colby did. When I was his age, I was pretty aware of airplanes and spacecraft. One night I swore I saw the Space Shuttle rocketing overhead. In all likelihood I saw an ANG F-102.<br />3. Clearly the number of helicopters supposedly seen is problematic. <br />4. The women's injuries were not properly assessed medically right after the supposed exposure to the craft.<br /><br />I want to muddy the waters some more. The women saw a blinding light. Has anyone considered a helicopter-mounted searchlight?<br /><br />The following manual warns about heat damage to exposed surfaces:<br /><br />http://www.spectrolab.com/searchlights/pdfs/operation_manuals/SX-16%20Operation_031734e.pdf<br /><br />Also, this video shows a Bell 234 (civilian CH-47) carrying a firefighting bucket. Is it possible the "diamond" was actually being carried by a helicopter in a firefighting role? The retardant is not flames but perhaps could be mistaken for them when backlit by another light?<br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2JHxOAorVE&noredirect=1<br /><br />It's not a perfect hypothesis--why would a firefighting Bell 234 dump retardant on a highway? Mechanical problems?<br /><br />As for injuries, as they were not properly assessed by a doctor right after, we can't make definitive judgments as to whether the sighting even caused them. But I'd be curious to know whether firefighting retardant could cause skin injuries such as those reported.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02368304148856755482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1071963771262525979.post-74001148515136492692013-12-08T20:05:31.828-06:002013-12-08T20:05:31.828-06:00Bill, I have to admit that when I replied earlier,...Bill, I have to admit that when I replied earlier, I had not watched the videos yet. The first one, in the dark almost looks like a flying saucer! I was surprised how dark the plane was, and was expecting to see a bright exhaust like a rocket launch. <br /><br />The second one is fascinating (if you like flying things). That hover time is amazing. From memory, I thought it was minimal, just something like 17 seconds for either take off or landing. Still, I'm guessing this was a stunt for the show and the pilot nearly burned off the whole tank.<br /><br />I just dusted off a report on some tech candidates I came across a few years back. just a sampler of things military tech that might have been in play. It'll be up in the next few days. Thanks for stooping by and the kind words.Curt Collinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13773941506205598439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1071963771262525979.post-74847587096468930122013-12-08T19:40:36.317-06:002013-12-08T19:40:36.317-06:00Curt, regarding the hover time, I was surprised to...Curt, regarding the hover time, I was surprised to see in the second video above how long the Harrier can hover. The pilot is moving it back and forth along the crowd. But it appears, if he had wanted, he could of left it hovering in one spot for most of the 4+ minute video. I'm not sure how long the Cash-Landrum witnesses had the object in sight.<br /><br />By the way, great job of researching this.Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00150798486260949300noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1071963771262525979.post-43732402227818460882013-12-08T19:05:04.312-06:002013-12-08T19:05:04.312-06:00Bill, I get that a lot, even when there's not ...Bill, I get that a lot, even when there's not a Chris around.<br /><br />You are right, a Harrier would give us part of the effects. Allan Hendry's recently discovered report discusses this possibility, going further to suggest it was part of a military exercise involving helicopters and electronic countermeasures which could have produced microwave injuries. a tidy little package! Supposedly (I've not seen documentation) Harriers were ruled out and all were accounted for.<br /><br />Still, it's such a good match, it's worth taking another look at along with other VTOL craft such as "tail-sitters." A problem is their hover time is fairly short, and wouldn't be able to linger as reported.<br /><br />You are looking at the right kind of things. Whatever it his was, how did it "float"?Curt Collinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13773941506205598439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1071963771262525979.post-56025707993694675172013-12-08T18:54:55.741-06:002013-12-08T18:54:55.741-06:00Sorry Curt, I referred to you as ChrisSorry Curt, I referred to you as ChrisBillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00150798486260949300noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1071963771262525979.post-79197434175740589702013-12-08T18:50:38.278-06:002013-12-08T18:50:38.278-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00150798486260949300noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1071963771262525979.post-86359323006289480412013-12-08T18:30:33.186-06:002013-12-08T18:30:33.186-06:00Chris, have you considered whether the object was ...Chris, have you considered whether the object was a Harrier jet? If a Harrier came in low over the trees with its exhausts pointed down, it could be quite startling and difficult for the witnesses to comprehend. I understand you have found that Betty and Vickie didn't recall much visually other than the flames.<br /> <br />At the end of this video, when the pilot turns the exhausts down before landing, it can be seen what the illuminated exhausts of a Harrier can look like at night.<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wz3o9LxzmZU<br /><br />In this daytime video, it can be seen how a Harrier appears when doing hovering maneuvers with the exhausts pointed down. When seen head on, it almost appears diamond shaped.<br /> <br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTl_NpbkKp4<br /> Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00150798486260949300noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1071963771262525979.post-46254814270449865742013-11-17T20:48:00.855-06:002013-11-17T20:48:00.855-06:00Deano, regarding the "mysterious re-paving of...Deano, regarding the "mysterious re-paving of the road" you may want to check out the November 15 blog post entitled 'The Legend of the Scorched Road' for the current information on that story.<br /><br />To resurface a road you need more than a 'few trucks' and some asphalt plus the men to spread it. Other equipment required includes, backhoes, graders, road rollers, asphalt spreaders and the transport necessary to bring those vehicles to the site. Where did this equipment come from? Where is the paper trail? <br /><br />Remember that back in the early 1980s computers were not that widely used, if these vehicles originated from a military source then there would be requisition orders ditto if they were borrowed from the local councils equipment depot. And then there is the asphalt itself, it cannot be 'whipped up on the spot' it needs to be made and transported and again there would be a paper trail.<br /><br />The photographs on the wikipedia page about the type of asphalt used in roadbuiling includes a photograph of roadworks in progress.<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asphalt_concreteGrahamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08885769183690278872noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1071963771262525979.post-87159561005272005462013-11-17T09:06:45.439-06:002013-11-17T09:06:45.439-06:00Deano, I saw your comments on Robert Sheaffer'...Deano, I saw your comments on Robert Sheaffer's site as well, and it is obvious you have carefully been reading up on the case and considering earthly scientific explanations for the events. I'm just not familiar enough with the program you mentioned to know if it could plausibly be connected with the case.<br /><br />I'm glad you have paid careful attention to the flight characteristics of the UFO, and I agree with you the size reported along with maneuvers do seem to to resemble those of a balloon of blimp of some kind. Still, it's not a perfect match and we don't have access to any evidence for it.<br /><br />My belief is that if there was a genuine event at the core of this story, there are almost certainly surviving operators and support crew of the vehicles involved. Classified or not, someone will talk. This is not like Roswell, the surviving crew members would just now be nearing retirement age.<br /><br />Thanks for posting your comments, please check back. There are more articles and files to come!Curt Collinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13773941506205598439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1071963771262525979.post-56041298857703806462013-11-16T22:12:50.323-06:002013-11-16T22:12:50.323-06:00The object hovered & rose after flame bursts, ...The object hovered & rose after flame bursts, then descended, flame burst & rose eventually clearing the trees & escorted by 23 chinooks.<br />This is a real case of a UFO acting like a balloon!!<br />Schuessler was the link through MUFON to imply a UFO. He was a propulsion expert at NASA as well. So I looked at balloons at NASA.<br />To explore Saturn's moon,Titan, NASA was looking at radioisotope balloons.<br />Vikings had used a RTG. Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generators to create electricity & the by-product,Heat. could be used to provide balloon lift.<br />Coupled with a rocket , HYDRAZINE & irridium catalyst/oxidiser, to launch & adjust altitude. Both of these could be a source of the symptoms.<br />Could the military have made a near space spying platform in the shape of a diamond balloon.? The flat angles of the diamond to give it a structure to contain the envelope full of isotopes, as well as early stealth being faceted & black.<br />A leak in the envelope could have sent it to ground, the rocket blasts to raise it enough for aerial capture or a more desolate location for containment.<br />This might explain all the Chinooks as Haz-mat crews, & if carrier based be Marines or Sea Knights, & thus give plausible deniability to Army & Airforce.<br />IT was Schuessler who managed the event & put the UFO angle into the investigation & his NASA links to a radioactive & toxic rocket fuel that must be kept secret at all costs. This explains the mysterious re-paving of the road as well.<br /><br />LOOK AT: Radioisotopes & propulsion of NASA Balloons.<br />deanohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16867076217070227180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1071963771262525979.post-25910416519642977592013-11-16T09:21:49.408-06:002013-11-16T09:21:49.408-06:00I'd call it an interesting speculation, and my...I'd call it an interesting speculation, and my own preferences are towards a terrestrial explanation (Like the one suggested by the photograph of the helicopter in your November 15th blog post.), but in my own opinion, a 'souped up' flamethrower is easier to design, build and supply 'exotic' fuel for than an aerospace vehicle.<br /><br />And there is less lead time involved. To use a real world historical example NASA ran it's first manned lunar landing simulations covering a full mission from launch to landing in 1962, seven years before the first Apollo landing, so early in fact that they had not decided on the landing mode (The missions simulated a direct landing of the Apollo CSM on the lunar surface rather than the two vehicle approach eventually chosen.)<br /><br />This thread I created on the Nasaspaceflight.com forums last year has pictures from the reports, but the documents themselves are currently offline due to that security scare earlier in the year.<br /><br />http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=28870.0<br /><br />I just don't see the lead time existing to put together a manned SSTO spacecraft, even if they were working from completed plans. Grahamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08885769183690278872noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1071963771262525979.post-91690005343784212822013-11-16T06:42:21.150-06:002013-11-16T06:42:21.150-06:00Graham, Thanks for your contributions. There's...Graham, Thanks for your contributions. There's a thread on the case on ATS http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread982313/pg2#pid17206754 where where 1ofthe9 discusses a candidate vehicle for the UFO, an experimental sub-orbital craft: <br /><i>"From this, I would think that our mysterious flying machine was running off a tripropellant, possibly air-augmented, rocket engine that was burning LOX, kerosene, and borane 'zip fuel'. Now the borane fuel program in the 1950's wasn't exactly a successful program...but if you really wanted something like I've proposed it might be worth a look. Borane fuels (I think they also looked at beryllium - but I'd have to dig through my aerospace books/pdfs) also turned out to be pretty nasty things, and the combustion products were just as unpleasant. " </i><br /><br />I've glanced through some of his references, while I'm unable to make any connections, have to say his scenario is much more plausible than the nuclear vehicle notions. His thoughts on the fuel seem to run along the same lines as yours. What do you think?Curt Collinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13773941506205598439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1071963771262525979.post-78185153731743166872013-11-16T04:42:55.403-06:002013-11-16T04:42:55.403-06:00For what it is worth here is a link to what wikipe...For what it is worth here is a link to what wikipedia had to say on armed Chinooks:<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_CH-47_Chinook#ACH-47A<br /><br />Looks like my memory of them being called "Go-Go Birds" was wrong, then again wikipedia could be wrong...<br /><br />As with all UFO cases ultimately they come down to the witness testimony and if it cannot be trusted then you might find yourself without a case.Grahamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08885769183690278872noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1071963771262525979.post-27334461648283348912013-11-15T07:59:11.877-06:002013-11-15T07:59:11.877-06:00Graham, I'm sorry to be just now replying to y...Graham, I'm sorry to be just now replying to your comments. I was not aware of the armed CH-47s, but cannot find anything to connect them to the incident. A while back I contacted a helicopter mechanic who had souped up CH-47s for the 1st hostage rescue attempt: <br /><br /><i> "I see no connection to anything that we did back then.<br />I am not aware of any other CH-47s that were modified for Honey Badger other than the ones that we did at the Army Depot in New Cumberland, Pa.<br />After the screw-up in transportation by the Navy in Florida, "Plan B" was hatched on the fly to instead use unmodified CH-53's and you already know the results of that decision."</i><br /><br />I asked him to look at a summary of the case, checking for any equipment that could have been misinterpreted as the UFO. He saw no connection, and knew of no missions during the C-L time frame.<br /><br />Dr. Hynek thought (based on several investigations) that there were no physical helicopters present, but he believed the witnesses. He considered the possibility that the helicopters were some kind of holographic-like projection. <br /><br />I'm willing to consider <b>half</b> of his theory, that there were no helicopters.Curt Collinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13773941506205598439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1071963771262525979.post-7196987654270109612013-09-03T20:46:37.931-05:002013-09-03T20:46:37.931-05:00Thanks, I'll certainly do that. I bought up UV...Thanks, I'll certainly do that. I bought up UV because as an Australian we get lots of warnings about the dangers of sun exposure and the pictures of Betty Cash reminded me of images used in warning campaigns.<br /><br />I do however have my own, purely speculative idea as to what might have been seen, this popped into my head after listening to the Paracast interview. <br /><br />My idea, is that it was a flamethrower using a boron based fuel mounted on a Ch-47. <br /><br />During the Vietnam war some Ch-47s were outfitted as gunships (They were dubbed "Go-Go Birds") and the idea could have been revived for Honey Badger.<br /><br />Also during the 50's the United States Air Force looked into using boron based fuels which were believed to produce more energy than conventional fuels. They also turned out to be incredibly toxic, which is why they were abandoned.<br /><br />That is also one of several objections to the concept, I'm not going to enumerate them because they should be fairly obvious.<br /><br />My problem with the story as told is that the object was emitting heat, but the heat should have spread in all directions, if you've stood near an overlarge bonfire, then you should have some idea of what I'm saying at this point, something is off, either the timing of the event as stated, or the distance the witnesses said they were to the object, but I have no idea how to test this and it might have to be a 'field test' to investigate that aspect.<br /><br />I would suspect that the key is going to be those helicopters.Grahamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08885769183690278872noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1071963771262525979.post-3628782912735935762013-09-03T15:15:27.582-05:002013-09-03T15:15:27.582-05:00Over time, the witnesses described a range of colo...Over time, the witnesses described a range of colors to describe the light and flames, but were consistent in using a palette of fiery colors, and saying that it lit up the woods like daylight. Chris acknowledges that his depiction is an artistic guess based on witness testimony, and that it could be too red.<br /><br />UV light has been discussed, often as part of a spectrum of radiation. The problem with it and the other candidates is that the symptoms don't match up well. We have to mix and match exposures and maladies to come up with the symptoms produced.<br /><br />Part of the medical puzzle was created to some extent by the investigators trying to match the case to a radiation source. Based on what I've seen, they may have overstated some of the symptoms (esp. those of Vickie and Colby) in order to present a stronger case. <br /><br />Search for "Betty Cash"+Ultra-Violet to see some of the discussion of the UV possibility. Brad Sparks' articles are of particular interest.Curt Collinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13773941506205598439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1071963771262525979.post-22155583026634333392013-09-03T11:24:44.295-05:002013-09-03T11:24:44.295-05:00Hi,
A couple of questions, firstly is the colour ...Hi,<br /><br />A couple of questions, firstly is the colour (red) depicted in the Lambright image correct?<br /><br />Secondly, has exposure to Ultra Violet light been considered as a possible cause for the skin injuries?Grahamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08885769183690278872noreply@blogger.com