UFOs, Sea Serpents, Ridicule and Disinformation

Ridicule... it wasn't invented for flying saucer witnesses.

Neither were little green men. That was an old phrase used to describe the wee folk way before saucers, and if someone was seeing the LGM, chances were good they were drunk or had a screw loose.

The Song of the Little Green Men 
from "The Christian Advocate" magazine, Dec. 1, 1910. 

These little men were not necessarily green, but these tales started circulating thanks to Silas Newton's Aztec saucer crash story in 1949. This cartoon is by John Carlton from April 2, 1950 and was syndicated nationally by the Associated Press. A good look at how the public felt about the AF's handling of the saucer situation, and how the whole topic was silly.

Long before 1947, people tended to doubt the word of witnesses reporting weird things, and ridicule was a frequent response. Here are some examples from the heyday of the Sea Serpent era.
.

The Broadford Courier, March 1, 1895 from Victoria, Australia

No, ridicule of strange sightings was not invented for UFOs. A frequent gag was that the person was seeing things as the result of drinking too much. A cartoon from the Reading Eagle, Aug. 30, 1914.

The Reading (PA) Eagle,  Aug 30, 1914 

That Sea Serpent

Q "What has become of the sea serpent that used to show up every summer?"

A: "They had to chase him off the coast. He caused so many men to take the (sobriety) pledge that he was killing business for the bar."

Another example, an even older one, from The Toronto Daily Mail, September 8, 1885!

The Toronto Daily Mail, Sep 8, 1885 

Unfortunately, ridicule and disbelief are part of human nature. It's certainly not of anti-Disclosure UFO disinformation scheme. That would be silly.

Cash-Landrum UFO Case Updates: Witness Reports

The 1980 Cash-Landrum UFO case near Huffman Texas remains a fascinating unsolved mystery. If the witnesses' claims were true, something genuinely extraordinary happened, regardless of the nature of the object they described. The involvement of military helicopters in the incident has always caused the hope that military records or crewmen could be located to provide  more information.

Unfortunately, the incident was not immediately reported. Betty Cash, Vickie Landrum and her grandson Colby Landrum were out for a drive the night of December 29, 1980 when they had their encounter with a fiery UFO. However, they did not report it, or even tell Betty's doctors about it when she became ill. It was not until Betty's second trip to the hospital that the UFO story came out, and more time passed before Vickie reported it. 

The local police gave Vickie contact information for the National UFO Reporting Center (NUFORC), and the UFO report. was finally made on February 2, 1981. Unfortunately, while their information was given to  UFO organizations, there were delays in getting a response. Consequently, the initial interviews were made by a tabloid newspaper instead. Afterwards, a local reporter put Betty Cash in touch with MUFON's John Schuessler. She met with him the next day on Feb. 22, but another week passed before Schuessler saw Vickie and Colby Landrum on Feb. 28, and then visited the roadway where the sighting took place. With all the combined delays, almost two months were lost before the UFO investigation began.

The initial search in the surrounding area produced no additional witnesses. However, after when the story was covered in the media, an appeal was made for anyone else who had seen anything to help. Over the following months and years, a few people did come forward claiming that they, too had seen something around that time. (See this map, which includes details on the secondary witnesses.) The problem remains that none of them had reported seeing anything until after the UFO story received publicity.

Sometimes, people come forward after decades with genuine accounts and add depth to the historical record. But it pays to be careful, because some of these claims are false. For example,  something similar happened in the old West. There were lots of imposters claiming to be famous outlaws who'd somehow survived their reported deaths. John James is one such example, pictured below from "The Many Faces of Jesse James." These fakes "help" keep interest in a story alive, but do nothing to bring us closer to the truth.

Real Witnesses are Needed

If it was real, more people must have seen it. Any helicopter personnel who may participated in the pursuit of the UFO are at (or nearing) retirement age and could now discuss this case without the fear of risk to their military careers. It is possible that once-secret government documents could now be made available, if we knew where to look. Others in Texas from the Huffman area may have been witnesses and be able to add valuable details.

If you are a witness to the 1980 Cash-Landrum incident, or have details that would help in its investigation, please use the link below to send an email reporting your information. Contact is confidential, and your name will not be used without your permission. If you've previously reported your sighting, please mention it in your email.                  

Blue Blurry Lines: Cash-Landrum UFO Case Updates

(This is for matters relating to this specific case only.)

Witnesses who are are coming forward for the first time are encouraged to file a report to NUFORC or MUFON, in order that their sightings can be added to the records on the case. 

Dr. Edgar Mitchell: Memories of Roswell

What's in a word?

Dr. Edgar Mitchell on Aliens and their Spacecraft.

An important distinction from a flying saucer scientist

Stanton Friedman uses the term flying saucer to indicate “intelligently controlled extraterrestrial spacecraft.” He says,

A truly enormous amount of material has been written about flying saucers. Some people don’t even want me to use the term, but I use it to make an important distinction: Flying saucers are, by definition, unidentified flying objects, but very few unidentified flying objects are flying saucers. - Flying Saucers and Science

1947 artist's conception of a flying saucer.

But flying saucer did not always have that meaning. It was only after Donald Keyhoe’s article and book, Flying Saucers are Real, and the science fiction movies of the 1950s, did the term come to be understood as spacecraft. It was for that reason, unidentified flying objects or UFOs was used by the Air Force to avoid the automatic association with alien craft (but that term, too became associated with spaceships).

In 1947, when a newspaper said “flying saucer,” it was putting a label on a mystery. Spaceship from other planets was mentioned by a few, but mostly in jest, as Men from Mars were familiar to people from Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers comic strips. At that time, many thought the flying saucer answer was atmospheric anomalies or secret military planes either of US or Soviet origin. It is only from our perspective, that yesterday’s headlines mentioning Flying saucers seem to be saying extraterrestrial spacecraft.

Telephone or Chinese Whispers is a game where people pass a whispered phrase around a circle to see how the story changes. It’s a good example of just how stories transmute even when there’s no intent to exaggerate or fabricate. Translation of a story from one language to another can unintentionally distort details  but a just having it paraphrased within the same language is enough to do the same thing, especially when it’s done from memory many years later.

A Newspaper Witness from Roswell?

From Edgar Mitchell’s introduction to the 2009 edition of Witness to Roswell:

“I was ready to begin my senior year in high school in the summer of 1947 when the Roswell Daily Record on July 8 proclaimed the recovery of a crashed alien spacecraft on a ranch northwest of Roswell.”

The Roswell Daily Record from July 8, 1947, makes no such claims. The headline states

"RAAF Captures Flying Saucer On Ranch in Roswell Region"

It does not characterize the object as a spacecraft, alien or otherwise.

On July 25, 2008, Edgar Mitchell appeared on BlogTalkRadio’s ShapeShifting, hosted by Lisa Bonnice. 

"Well, that the crash of an alien spacecraft in the Roswell area was a real event and much of the lore, I can't say all of the lore, but much of the fact that dead bodies were recovered and live ones were recovered, that they were not of this world, was the story. And of course it was reported in the Roswell Daily Record one day and promptly denied the next day and a cover story of a weather balloon, and that was pure nonsense. That was a cover-up.”  (Quoted at http://kevinrandle.blogspot.com/2008/07/edgar-mitchell-and-roswell.html)

In this clip we see him claim that he heard stories about the Roswell alien bodies, but admits it wasn’t until after 1980, when the first Roswell UFO book was released.

Mitchell interview posted by German UFO site.

In this clip from "Roswell Slides" promoter, Jaimie Maussan, Mitchell claims that the newspaper published stories about a Roswell crash of an alien spacecraft and bodies were recovered. As seen earlier, the story was only about a “flying saucer.” 

“I read it in the newspaper. On one day- on the day it reached the newspaper, it was that an alien spacecraft has crashed and bodies recovered and the next day, thanks to the Air Force and the military, they hushed it up and said, no, it was a weather balloon.”

BeWitness video with Edgar Mitchell

Edgar Mitchell lived at Roswell at the time, but had no direct experience with the alleged UFO events. All of his information on the events come from the stories of others.  Combining his memory of the newspaper coverage with the modern definition of flying saucer, when he relates his experience, even though he is sincere, he is in error. 

Dateline 1966: A Paranormal Encounter

X? and the witness, circa Fall 1966.

The Witness: Boy, aged 7.5 years, student in elementary school, second grade. 

Conventional nuclear family, two sisters, one older, one younger. Boy exhibited typical activities and interests for his age and gender, although interests skewed towards fantasy, especially cartoons, comic books, monsters and heroes.

Jackson, Mississippi, USA #pinitdown

1960s satellite photo of neighborhood & shot of house exterior.

Exterior of the sighting location.

The Location: 3735 Lee Drive, Jackson, Mississippi, USA. Modest three-bedroom home in a stable suburban neighborhood. The incident occurred in the front room, a den or living room facing East, with two curtained windows.

Key element to the story, television programs establish year, time and day.

The Date:

The day is verified as a Saturday, a morning, the time, between the hours of 9:00 and 11:00 A.M. Exact date unknown, believed to be early Fall of 1966.

The Incident: A single witness sighting of a “ghost” by young boy. Parents were told, but no police or official report was filed. All case information comes from the witness' memory of incident, collected over four decades later.

Yeah, the boy was me. My introduction to the concept of ghosts may well have been Casper the Friendly Ghost on television. I’d watch it when it was on, but all I really cared about was Batman and other super heroes.

False advertising. No cartoon ghosts appear.

I had seen the Ghost and Mr. Chicken sometime earlier the year, my first scary movie in a theatre. There was some creepy stuff, but I don’t recall an actual ghost being depicted. I can’t be sure if I saw or noticed the one in the advertising, which looked like an evil, four-armed Casper. No nightmares or anything afterwards, though.

The Incredible True Saga

In the Fall of 1966, I saw a ghost-like apparition, or perhaps an indoor UFO. It wasn’t a life changing event, but I’ve thought about it now and then over the years, and finally tried to get the facts together. 

It was a Saturday morning. I was 7.5 years old when this event took place, and don’t remember what had happened earlier in the morning, but speculate that our family had breakfast together and then everyone else went back to their rooms. I pounced on the rare opportunity to get the den television all to myself. CBS had an excellent block of Saturday morning cartoons, and I probably came in during Underdog, but may have begun as early as Captain Kangaroo.

Our TV was B&W.

Schedule for CST. Not mine, we had only 2 channels.

  8:30 AM The Underdog Show

  9:00 AM Frankenstein, Jr. and The Impossibles

  9:30 AM Space Ghost and Dino Boy

10:00 AM The New Adventures of Superman

10:30 AM The Lone Ranger

11:00 AM The Road Runner Show

I settled in and laid on the couch with my head on a pillow, ready to enjoy the full run. Sometime, probably during Space Ghost or Superman, I became aware of a presence, a ghostly form hovering beside the couch to my right. It was if about two feet away from me and about as tall as an adult.

My diagram is based on memory, guesswork and photos (which only show the exterior of the house). I can’t even be certain of dimensions or anything, except the placement of the door, windows, television and couch. There were no lights on in the room, just the TV, and whatever daylight got past the curtains.

It reminded me of this, but no legs.

My impression of the figure was that it was a ghost, and though it didn’t look much like it, the match I made for it in my mind was one of the adult ghosts as seen in Casper.

L, similar to the shape. R, similar to the transparency.

It was roughly six feet tall, but the body mostly formless. There seemed to be a head (but no face), possibly arms, but not legs, and it was completely transparent as if made of cigarette smoke. I found two pictures that somewhat resemble aspects of it, one a bit of the shape, and the other the smoky transparency. However, my ghost was not so billowy as either smoke picture.

My distinct impression was that this thing was hovering over me and silently watching. It scared me, and at that age, I had the notion that if you ignored bad things, they would go just away. 

I froze motionless and silent, and pretended not to see it. I focused my attention into tunnel vision on the television screen.

Two avoidance techniques: Ostritching and Playing Possum, 

Every so often, I’d steal a glance over it at, and see that it continued to hang there in the air motionless. I distinctly remember that it was there during the Lone Ranger program. While it was on, I became so focused on the show, that stopped thinking about the ghost. Sometime after the show was over, I turned to look and the ghost was gone. 

I told my family, and they reacted as parents always do, assuring me it was just my imagination, or a shadow etcetera... Parents are the original debunkers. Before there were weather balloons, it was always, “Just the wind blowing.”

Even though I repeated the morning television viewing on many other days, there was never any ghost, cloud or disturbance of any kind, but then the chances to duplicate the event were limited.  In May 1967, we moved to another house on the other side of town.

The Investigation

All we know are the facts.

What was it... a Hallucination?

I remain firmly convinced that what I saw was real, and not a hallucination, dream or my imagination. I’ve caught glimpses of shadows or objects that have fooled me briefly lots of times into thinking I’d seen cats, people or whatever, but this thing remained in place for so long, it was really there. While I can’t recall the plots of the shows I watched today, I could have at the time, I hadn’t fallen asleep and dreamt it.

What was it... a Ghost?

I was under the impression it was a ghost, even though it really didn’t match the depictions of a ghost I’d seen in media. I thought they were spectral people, or maybe looked like Casper’s friends. I didn’t associate it with a spirit of someone dead, but for this project, checked to see if there were any deaths near the sighting. It turns out that in the eighteen months leading up to my ghost, I’d lost three grandparents. At that age, about all it meant to me was those people weren’t around anymore, but it was a bit of a mystery to me why my parents were so worried and sad about it.

I'd recently lost grandparents, but it didn't seem like one of them.

As the ghost experience was happening, I was just afraid of this unknown thing, but never got the sense of an identity or message coming from it. I did feel a sense of menace from it though, mostly due to how near me it was. If this was a messenger from the beyond, they largely failed in the delivery.

The angle of the Sun seems all wrong. 

What was it... Sunlight?

The ghost resembled smoke, but hung motionless for some period of time greater than an hour. My parents smoked, but were in the other end of the house, and there was no source for smoke. Over the years, I’ve often considered sunlight as the best prosaic candidate. The house faced East, and there were windows behind the television. While the curtains were closed, maybe sunlight streamed through a crack and illuminated dust particles floating in the air.

The Sun remains is a "person of interest."

During the part of the year the sighting likely occurred, the sun rises at Approximately 6:45 A.M. and sets at 7:00 P.M.

Adds a bit of color, but no answers.

That might explain how it appeared and then vanished. Maybe. I’ve tried to gather information on the Sun’s position thorough the day, and the angle at the time of the event seems wrong for that theory. Also, the fact that it happened on just that lone Saturday seems to argue against it.

This is the house we used to live in. From Google Maps.

I’d hoped to really test the angles, but the house was abandoned and eventually torn down sometime after 2007. There’s just an empty lot there now, nothing physical to go on, and only one object from the sighting room remains in my possession.

A silent witness.

What do you hope to achieve?

Trying to track down the details  turned out to be an interesting exercise, testing my memory against the facts, and seeing just what can be proven or documented. The memory of the event is a bit unclear, and this point, it’s more like I remember remembering, it, and not so much the original event itself. Checking the facts against my memory revealed several surprises. A whole lot happened to the family in a concentrated period of time, things that seemed spaced years apart as I remembered them. 

One interesting thing about gathering the information: there was an almost irresistible temptation to use imagination to connect one fact to another or use speculation to fill in the blanks. I think many yield to this temptation, and often tell more than they know.

ex scientia vera

Maybe someone can read this and piece together things that I've missed or provide a more professional analysis of how the Sun may have created a ghost effect. I’ve never had another similar experience, and it remains an unsolved puzzle. 

My ghost sighting was not a transformative event, but it has given me some insight into the experiences of UFO and paranormal witnesses, and what they go thorough in not being believed. And I have to wonder, if being scoffed at doesn't somehow make it even more real in one's mind and memory. 

I know it did for me. 

What Good Are 25 Years of UFO Reports?

"UFOs Over Canada: 25 Years of UFO Reports" was issued in July from Ufology Research. The media has given the report some good coverage, but mostly short bits not allowing for detail. At the end of August, Chris Rutkowski was invited to appear on the Paracast (a UFO and paranormal talk show), and their format allowed for an in-depth discussion. His intro:

Explore 25 years of UFO sightings in Canada with long-time investigator Chris Rutkowski. He and his colleagues have accumulated a huge archive containing some 15,000 UFO cases in Canada. The new survey covers the years 1989 through 2013. When you check the report at his Ufology Research site, you'll notice that the number of sightings increased in 2012 before settling down to a somewhat lower, but still historically high, level in 2013. Says his bio: "Chris Rutkowski, BSc, MEd, is a Canadian science writer and educator, with a background in astronomy but with a passion for teaching science concepts to children and adults. Since the mid-1970s, he also has been studying reports of UFOs and writing about his investigations and research."

Chris Rutkowski, as seen on TV

The interview turned out to be a far-ranging one, touching on many major issues in the examinations of UFOs, from their study to media coverage. Several cases were discussed, both famous and obscure, including one of great personal interest to me, the Cash-Landrum incident.

The Paracast August 31, 2014 — Chris Rutkowski
http://www.theparacast.com/podcast/now-playing-august-31-2014-chris-rutkowski

Required Reading

Chris was asked to be on the show to primarily to discuss the study, "UFOs Over Canada: 25 Years of UFO Reports." The report itself is very interesting and it makes excellent points about the value of data collection and analysis. I recommend highly reading it no matter what your views are on the subject. The study strives to accurately record what is reported, and does not seek to characterize the unexplained cases beyond saying they are unknown.

"If UFOs are not 'real,' then why are tens of thousands of Canadians (and others worldwide) seeing unusual objects in the sky?"

Ufology Research: 25 Years of Canadian UFO Reports (introductory article)

UFOsOver Canada: The "25th Anniversary Written Report" (in pdf format) 

Applying the Data

Utilizing the database in the 25 year study, Chris Rutkowski, made
A Comparison of UFO Sighting Reports Between 1989 and 2013 with the list of Visually Observed Natural Re-Entries of Earth Satellites compiled by Ted Molczan
http://uforum.blogspot.com/2014/08/re-entries-of-rocket-boosters-and-ufos.html

This re-entry comparison study is interesting for several reasons. It immediately demonstrates the practical application of having a disciplined body of data. Having Ted Molczan's list allows for a comparison of the success rates of ufologists (or at least this group of Canadian ufologists) in identifying reported objects. 

Another, interesting point is that the orbital object re-entries allow a good sample of reports generated by known stimulus, allowing for an examination of how well witness are reporting the objects they see. Skeptics tend to distrust eye witness reliability, but this collection shows that the objects and actions were reasonably well described, if not understood, by the  witnesses. 

Re-entries of man-made objects provides an excellent opportunity for science and ufology to work on a common area of interest and share information. UFO proponents and skeptics alike should be able to agree on the value in that kind of dialogue. 

Additional Witness Testimony: Multiplication by Zero?

Over the years, there have been a few new claims of additional witnesses to the Cash-Landrum sighting of Dec, 29, 1980. The trouble is that the details are usually sketchy, rarely match and can't be verified. Worst of all, they don't explain why they didn't come forward when the case was at its height of publicity, or when it really might have mattered, during the attempted lawsuit against the US government. 

One fairly recently surfaced claim is interesting, due to the details and the effort the witness has made in reporting it. After cross-checking, I've found three separate places where the witness, a former airman, anonymously reported the same thing.

Anonymous airman

Kevin Randle: A Different Perspective: Cash Landrum & Crash Retrievals Jan. 2011
joe b. said...
vickie,coby,and betty were not the only witnesses out there that night in 1980, I was right down the road on my way to houston, as i was coming from england air force base in alexandria louisiana!
http://kevinrandle.blogspot.com/2011/01/cash-landrum-and-crash-retrievals.html

 . . .

Route on Alt. 90 would have taken him within 10 miles of C-L sighting location.

Ray-X: Jim Moseley Is On The Case: The Cash-Landrum Incident Nov. 2011

the truth is there were more witnesses that night. especially on alternate 90, the highway adjacent to the area where the cash and landrums were.the craft was the size of a water tower, i did not see any helos following as the craft was flying good and very quite. i got out of my car on alt.90 and walked into a the plowed field and it was a cold clear night. i wached this beautifully colored craft with many diff. colors in the belt area of the craft as they rotated. the craft stopped in mid flight and wobbly continued over the highway. i experienced the oz factor or lost time. got back in my car totalyy stunned. i drove to the nearest covenient store about 4miles away and bought a beer. i kept my mouth dhut for many yrs. till 1989 because i was in the military at the time. i told my wife and called walt andrus in 1989, he said he didnt know what it was. i called him after seeing the 1989 unsoved mysteries. p to that point i thought i was nuts but i knew what i saw. 1980 road traveler.http://xrayer.blogspot.com/2011/11/jim-moseley-is-on-case-cash-landrum.html?showComment=1345684596780#c7472763541153769181

                                                                          . . .

England AFB, Alexandria,LA

In Feb. 2013, the sameman filed a report at UFO Evidence, filling out their online form. He provided answers to all questions. (There is an option to upload a picture or sketch, which he did not use.)

December, 29, 1980 - UFO Evidence 2/11/2013 12:43:08 AM
Date:
December, 29, 1980
Location:
dayton, Texas, United States
Summary:
On leave.left england a.f.b. louisiana at approx.6:30 pm enroute to houston tx. as i got within 30miles of humble i looked out at the cold dark clear sky at what i first thought was a big jetliner but i had to look again and i saw a huge water-tower sized craft. this was a large thing. a white disc diamonded shaped with top and bottoms cut off. i was on a busy highway near houston. there many cars on this 2-lane highway. i pulled off the road at about 9pm shut off the engine and walked out into the plowed field. there was no fence. no other cars stopped only me! i looked up at the beautiful modern craft with different colored windows on its beltline. it was eerily quite! it flew about 600 ft. above me. it stopped for 5 secs. and sped off wobbly at about 200mph like it was in trouble. no flames.no helos. i got back in the car i was driving alone. and had the oz factor or missing time. i war shaken up pretty bad and drove for 5 miles to a country store and told the clerl i had just saw a ufo! i drove to hou.
Date Reported:
2/11/2013 12:43:08 AM
Sighting Time: 9:30pm Day/Night: Nighttime Duration: 20minutes?
Appearance / Description of Object(s)
White like space shuttle color. modern not old fashion bare aluminum of the 1950s. shaped like a elongated diamond with the top and bottom tips cut off. big beautiful centerline mult-colored bright square revolving windows.
Size of Object(s)
huge! city water tower sized! 200ft.high by 300 ft.long
Distance to Object(s) & Altitude
Alt.started at 1500 ft. and de scended to 500 ft. dist. from me was 200 or 300 yards above me.
Description of Area / Surroundings
Rural open plowed fields a cold starry nite. intercontinental apt. 35 miles away.nasa 60miles. ft.polk 100miles. england air force base 200 miles.
Full Description & Details
I drove into hou.tx.that nite. for the holidays. i told only a brother about this sighting and he thought i was out of my mind. remember i saw no aliens in this sighting a ce2 case i believe only one craft involved! i told no one because i was in the u.s.a.f. at the time from 1979-1990. and i didnt want repurcussions from the military. during this same time period in 1980 the rendelsham forest afb sightings were going on. how strange. i to developed white spots on my body, hair loss, burning ears, headaches,ect... not till 1989 as i was stationed in charleston s.c. i saw the cash landrum case on unsolved mysteries and told my wife of my involvement. i then called mufon in seguin texas and told walt andrus of my sighting who the director at the time. he told me there lots of witnesses but no one knew what it was. this thing was for real!
Can sighting be explained as any conventional man-made or natural object?
Dont know. it could of been a captured ufo or man made craft on a test flight.
Witness Background
U.s. military 10 yrs.
Views on UFOs, before and after sighting
Very little
Other Comments
The cash landrum case only focuses on only 3 witnesses. but there were many more!
Reported Sighting? Yes

Reported To: walt andrus mufon seguin tx. 1990
Your Location: houston.tx.usa Age: 52
http://www.ufoevidence.org/sightings/report.asp?ID=13337

. . .

After getting his contact information, I wrote to him in Feb. 2014, asking if he'd like his report to be part of the investigation and if he could provide further details. It took him several months to reply, July 15, 2014.

“hello, curt. just saw your e-mail sorry. my exact location at the time is kind of blurry to me after all these years. my age was 20 yrs. old. I would like to participate.”

He's not responded to a request for further information, so it's at a standstill.

The material in his report is interesting, but of little value since they can't be checked. Certainly the claims of physical aftereffects are interesting. The details on the base, the travel time and the route he took are all plausible, and demonstrates a familiarity with the area. All that sounds good.

There are, problems, however. He claims little familiarity with UFO literature, but posted on two UFO blogs and a UFO reporting site, and he mentions "missing time, the "OZ factor" and "ce2 case" which indicates more than a laymen's knowledge of UFO terminology. He claims to have contacted MUFON, but if there's a recored of the call, it is not publicly available. There's also a couple of other suspect details, but I'm hoping he will resurface to clarify.

Until further information comes forward, all that can be done is just to file this one in the gray basket.